1 00:00:04,300 --> 00:00:10,540 So I can see that you get the flexibility and you learn from the customer and you can have those increments. 2 00:00:10,540 --> 00:00:15,640 Do you pay a price in terms of the time it takes and the cost it takes. 3 00:00:15,640 --> 00:00:20,560 Because sticking with the house analogy if the flooring guy comes in does the kitchen floor and then 4 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:24,580 later on comes back and does the bathroom floor and then does another floor rather than just doing the 5 00:00:24,580 --> 00:00:28,640 floor in one lock which he would do if you had a project plan. 6 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:34,480 Does it mean that projects take longer to finish and probably cost more. 7 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:36,600 If you do them in an agile way. 8 00:00:36,670 --> 00:00:42,250 Yeah well typically agile agile teams don't deliver projects. 9 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:50,230 They are building products which is distinguishable because it's your agile team is not thinking about 10 00:00:50,230 --> 00:00:55,470 you know all the things that make a project that you know it's it's it has to be novel. 11 00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:58,750 But you know with the iron triangle and things like that. 12 00:00:58,750 --> 00:01:04,840 So with an agile team that's working in a software product or some sort of product they should expect 13 00:01:04,900 --> 00:01:10,850 a lot of rework XP teams you know say that extreme programming this is one of the frameworks used in 14 00:01:10,870 --> 00:01:11,610 agile. 15 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:15,730 They say that you shouldn't be afraid to throw away software if it's suboptimal. 16 00:01:15,970 --> 00:01:20,440 And they call it software refactoring where you're optimizing it all the time. 17 00:01:20,830 --> 00:01:29,590 But the idea behind it is that it's much easier to create a product and throw away work that's suboptimal 18 00:01:30,100 --> 00:01:33,490 than it is to try and plan everything out in the beginning. 19 00:01:33,490 --> 00:01:40,030 So you take that time you would have spent planning and you get rid of it and instead use it on adapting. 20 00:01:40,030 --> 00:01:44,060 And sometimes when you're adapting and learning from your mistakes you have to throw up work. 21 00:01:44,290 --> 00:01:50,080 But in the end you still save time because you don't have that planning that big chunk. 22 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:50,620 Yeah. 23 00:01:50,750 --> 00:01:55,570 And I guess that depends how long it takes to plan things or even whether it's possible to plan because 24 00:01:55,570 --> 00:02:01,570 I've got a bit of a confession as somebody who has got some prejudice against agile before this conversation 25 00:02:02,740 --> 00:02:10,780 I had an app may eat my my jobs to do app free on the App Store folks I MADE IT jobs to do that because 26 00:02:10,780 --> 00:02:16,060 none of the jobs to do apps did what I wanted and when I say I made it I paid a guy to make a really 27 00:02:16,060 --> 00:02:23,670 clever app guy I've got and I think it wasn't possible for me to plan it to think of everything beforehand. 28 00:02:23,710 --> 00:02:28,530 So we made it agile style and we didn't have scrums and sprints and all that sort of thing. 29 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:32,650 But basically I explained to him roughly what I wanted and he more or less understood what. 30 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:37,180 So I knew probably 80 percent of what I wanted and by the time I'd explained to him he understood probably 31 00:02:37,510 --> 00:02:42,010 60 percent of what was in my head I wasn't very good at explaining it. 32 00:02:42,010 --> 00:02:42,510 So. 33 00:02:42,580 --> 00:02:45,050 So he then made that. 34 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:49,180 And then when I got it I sort of said well I like it but could it be a different color and could this 35 00:02:49,180 --> 00:02:50,880 be over here and could this be bigger. 36 00:02:50,950 --> 00:02:52,410 And then we had version 2. 37 00:02:52,420 --> 00:02:57,220 And then I used it for a bit and realized it needs an extra screen and I wanted to go from small to 38 00:02:57,220 --> 00:02:59,080 big rather than big to small. 39 00:02:59,140 --> 00:03:05,680 And we did about probably four iterations which took longer and cost more than if he had just nailed 40 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:06,710 it first time. 41 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:11,760 But it just wasn't possible for me to even know what the finished thing was gonna be like. 42 00:03:11,770 --> 00:03:17,410 And because it was software he could easily just go back in and tweak it for another hundred pounds 43 00:03:17,410 --> 00:03:18,340 and another hundred. 44 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:23,440 And so by the end I wasn't bitter about the fact that it cost a bit more than we thought because it 45 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:25,030 was me that kept messing him around. 46 00:03:25,030 --> 00:03:26,680 So I was fine with that. 47 00:03:27,060 --> 00:03:33,100 And I kind of knew the beginning of the process that that was how it was going to have to go so I can 48 00:03:33,100 --> 00:03:38,050 see with software that you can change things halfway through in a way that you can't change with the 49 00:03:38,050 --> 00:03:39,220 house. 50 00:03:39,220 --> 00:03:44,230 And I can also see that with software it's harder to imagine sometimes what it's gonna be like. 51 00:03:44,260 --> 00:03:47,230 So you have to be pretty flexible so. 52 00:03:47,260 --> 00:03:49,740 So that's what we did and that worked really well for that.