So I can see that you get the flexibility and you learn from the customer and you can have those increments.
Do you pay a price in terms of the time it takes and the cost it takes.
Because sticking with the house analogy if the flooring guy comes in does the kitchen floor and then
later on comes back and does the bathroom floor and then does another floor rather than just doing the
floor in one lock which he would do if you had a project plan.
Does it mean that projects take longer to finish and probably cost more.
If you do them in an agile way.
Yeah well typically agile agile teams don't deliver projects.
They are building products which is distinguishable because it's your agile team is not thinking about
you know all the things that make a project that you know it's it's it has to be novel.
But you know with the iron triangle and things like that.
So with an agile team that's working in a software product or some sort of product they should expect
a lot of rework XP teams you know say that extreme programming this is one of the frameworks used in
agile.
They say that you shouldn't be afraid to throw away software if it's suboptimal.
And they call it software refactoring where you're optimizing it all the time.
But the idea behind it is that it's much easier to create a product and throw away work that's suboptimal
than it is to try and plan everything out in the beginning.
So you take that time you would have spent planning and you get rid of it and instead use it on adapting.
And sometimes when you're adapting and learning from your mistakes you have to throw up work.
But in the end you still save time because you don't have that planning that big chunk.
Yeah.
And I guess that depends how long it takes to plan things or even whether it's possible to plan because
I've got a bit of a confession as somebody who has got some prejudice against agile before this conversation
I had an app may eat my my jobs to do app free on the App Store folks I MADE IT jobs to do that because
none of the jobs to do apps did what I wanted and when I say I made it I paid a guy to make a really
clever app guy I've got and I think it wasn't possible for me to plan it to think of everything beforehand.
So we made it agile style and we didn't have scrums and sprints and all that sort of thing.
But basically I explained to him roughly what I wanted and he more or less understood what.
So I knew probably 80 percent of what I wanted and by the time I'd explained to him he understood probably
60 percent of what was in my head I wasn't very good at explaining it.
So.
So he then made that.
And then when I got it I sort of said well I like it but could it be a different color and could this
be over here and could this be bigger.
And then we had version 2.
And then I used it for a bit and realized it needs an extra screen and I wanted to go from small to
big rather than big to small.
And we did about probably four iterations which took longer and cost more than if he had just nailed
it first time.
But it just wasn't possible for me to even know what the finished thing was gonna be like.
And because it was software he could easily just go back in and tweak it for another hundred pounds
and another hundred.
And so by the end I wasn't bitter about the fact that it cost a bit more than we thought because it
was me that kept messing him around.
So I was fine with that.
And I kind of knew the beginning of the process that that was how it was going to have to go so I can
see with software that you can change things halfway through in a way that you can't change with the
house.
And I can also see that with software it's harder to imagine sometimes what it's gonna be like.
So you have to be pretty flexible so.
So that's what we did and that worked really well for that.